I’m cranky, but the nice thing about law school is that one is never alone…
I walk into Real Estate Law:
Me: “Good Afternoon, Jill.”
Jill: “Hey, how are you?”
Me: “Eh. I think I’m over law school.”
Jill: “Me too. I really enjoyed 1L year but this year I just want to kill someone.”
Yikes.
The longer I am in law school, the less I see myself practicing, and the more I suspect that I am wasting my time.
…so I started researching English doctorate programs.
I opted to go to law school instead of the English PhD route because senior year I was so disgusted by some of my professors who read random theories into texts that couldn’t support them. It was a type of academic “scholarship” that was essentially creative writing masked as literary criticism.1 Shakespeare, Elvis, and McDonald’s in the African diaspora…
I rather create than criticize, but the MFA-professors at my undergrad always seemed to have a badge of inferiority because of their lack of doctorate degrees.2 The question was always, “How well was your book received? Did it sell? When is your next book coming out?”
I am going to try and get into a literary theory class next semester and pick my professor’s brain about career options, and to see if a PhD is worth it.
If all else fails, I’ll be spend the first few years after law school as an underpaid attorney or an overeducated barista. Venti or Grande? Would you like a pastry or my legal opinion with that?
1 …by people too uncreative to write an original work. This was also rampant in Art History classes, where there is a razor thin line between “advanced research” and “bullshit.”
2 It seemed absolutely ridiculous that the people who were creating work were somehow less prestigious than those who did nothing but criticize it. But that was just my perception…
28 Comments
Laurie
November 11, 2009 at 8:11 pmNoooooo!!!!! Not the Ph.D. in English. Just a couple of considerations:
1. You think the job market in law is bad. The only real options for a Ph.D. in English is prof. Numerous Ph.D.’s have to link together a number of adjunct positions to make even 30K a year. And that’s with no health insurance and no benefits and, usually, no office.
2. The pay blows. Humanities are the lowest paid profs on campus. If you can find a tenure track position, starting salary (though with benefits) will be between 32 – 45K a year. And no salary in the summer unless you teach summer classes.
3. That scholarship thing is the only thing getting you tenure. Most of my friends hate the more tenuous crap out there, but those papers are required for tenure.
4. Unless you absolutely love teaching, college undergrads are not a picnic. First, helicopter parents are becoming much more common in college. And students in general, with support from the administration, are demanding much more individual attention (I am not talking conferences, I am talking almost individualized tutoring). That wouldn’t be a bad thing if you actually had time. But add admin duties on both the department level and university level, all the classes, grading, and your own scholarship, individual attention is almost impossible.
Not to go off like this, but I have too many friends that are tenured, on their way to being tenured, and in the humanities that absolutely hate their job. They stick with it because they don’t want to go back to school. Or because they relish the summers. Because, they may be underpaid, but they have a choice in how to spend their summers. And once tenured, they have more choices in a number of areas.
God, that was really long.
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 7:51 amPart of me thinks that being an underpaid humanities professor is better than being an underpaid lawyer. But the extra 7 years in school may not be worth it, esp. with the prospect of playing the adjunct game.
And the (what I consider) obscure scholarship is the thing that turned me off to the Ph.D…but the JD seems sort of like a waste of time too. Maybe I desperately need to take a legal clinic…
Laurie
November 12, 2009 at 12:10 pmWell, there are good things about the Ph.D. route, not to completely be down on it. Find a private school with lots of money. There you will be less likely to have to pay tuition if you get a TA assistantship. Though you end up teaching a good amount, you are making money, plus no more loans. Second, with a combined Ph.D. & JD, you might be eligible for a greater number of appointments. Some schools are doing more cross-over disciplines, so I would check into how a JD could give you an edge. And try to get out in 5, not 7 years. Those that end up doing that are usually better able to get positions.
If it’s not too much advice, I would look into University of Notre Dame. They are one of the few schools that if you are accepted, you are given 5 years of funding (tuition + stipend). Plus you don’t teach your first year or two. I got my phd there and there are numerous aspects about ND that are wonderful. I was in the sciences, but I knew people in the humanities. They seemed much more happy with their situation than many I met outside of ND. Plus, South Bend may not be a cultural mecca, but it is god-awful cheap to live. And there is a great train service that goes to Chicago (about 1.5 – 2 hours).
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 4:16 pmOoo fancy. Notre Dame was my second choice law school to UMN. I always imagined doing my Ph.D. at UMN (to avoid moving from the cities). UMN’s program is ranked at 35, whereas Notre Dame is at 46? Something like that…but I am not sure if graduate departments (hiring profs) are suckers for rankings like law schools/firms are.
Laurie
November 12, 2009 at 4:40 pmOne more, then I swear I will stop. Basically for humanities, if it isn’t ivy, it doesn’t matter. Like most of academia, the prestige is based on your advisor, not the school. I would push ND, not just cause I love it, but also has a great creative writing group. Steve Tomasula is a fantastic writer and director of the program.
Okay, I have said plenty!
Jansen
November 13, 2009 at 12:47 amHaha, one can never say enough! I’m still wary of a MFA based on how the undergrad profs were treated. But I may get over that between now and graduation.
Huma
November 11, 2009 at 7:23 pmSame here! I waffled back and forth between law school and going on for my Masters and PhD in English!
And honestly? I know for SURE I have no plans to be a lawyer. 😐 It’s just not for me. Whatever. We’ll figure shit out.
Jansen
November 11, 2009 at 7:37 pmHaha, the English Literature subject test for the GRE looks about as bad as the bar exam though. But I think it might be much more worth it…
karina
November 11, 2009 at 8:24 pmeeeeeeeek.
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 7:51 amIt’s not that bad is it?!
New Kid on the Hallway
November 11, 2009 at 10:08 pmLaurie beat me to this, but in case you were considering a Ph.D. because the legal job market looks bad: even with all the doom and gloom about the current legal market, the academic job market for someone with a Ph.D. in English is WAY WAY worse. Most statistics I’ve seen suggest that 25% of people who finish a Ph.D. ever get a tenure-track position in the field. That’s not counting the people who don’t finish, which anecdotally is quite a lot (but depts don’t like to publicize this information). Getting through a Ph.D. program quickly is usually 6 or 7 years.
Moreover, if you dislike literary theory, you will probably hate graduate study in literature. There are definitely uses of theory that many will agree are bogus, but the engagement with theory is largely what you will be expected to do.
(I think there are two issues with the MFA: First, it’s not a Ph.D., so some people [wrongly] look down on it. Second, I think the suspicion is that if someone were a REALLY good creative writer, they wouldn’t need to be a college prof – they’d just be able to support themselves on the sales of their work. So, yeah, a conflicted kind of situation!)
This isn’t to say that therefore you should practice law – if you don’t want to, then don’t. But the Ph.D. is a really hard row to how and is a really good path to overwork, underemployment impoverishment. (If you really want a Ph.D., I’d suggest doing one in Econ or Philosophy or Poli Sci and teaching in law school after you finish. But that’s just me.)
And all that said – if you do take a literature class next semester, you’d probably like John Watkins quite a bit (he teaches Shakespeare and that era). Rebecca Krug is also really cool (though you’d have to be willing to deal with Middle English because she teaches medieval). And David Treuer (creative writing) is a really good writer, though I don’t know much about him as a person.
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 8:00 amAll this horror with the Ph.D. route! Oh my. I was thinking about literary theory course with Craig Siobhan. I took literary theory in undergrad, but if figure taking it at the 5000x level might give me a preview? Maybe? Watkins is only teaching one non-independent study class, and that already has 9/13 signed up… the law school lottery starts tomorrow, but I don’t think they register me for a week or so.
I’m not going to start any Ph.D. until I graduate law school (as opposed to starting with a dual-degree/masters level) so I think that will give me enough time to figure out what route to go.
New Kid on the Hallway
November 12, 2009 at 4:14 pmYeah, taking the 5xxx course will probably be a good preview (though I think that the 5xxxx are usually open to undergrads and grads, which, if I remember that right, won’t give you quite the same experience as all grad students) (don’t be wary of taking the 8xxx level). And if you want to get into Watkins’s class, you could probably go ask him nicely–non-departmental students are often seen as a cool novelty. (but don’t take Watkins just because of my suggestion!)
And I mean, obviously I can’t think getting Ph.D. is THAT bad, because I did it and all. My take on it, though, is that you should only get a Ph.D. if you’re absolutely certain you want to be a prof, because while people with Ph.D.s end up doing a lot of different things, the only thing most Ph.D. programs intend to train you to do is be a prof, and it’s about the only job that requires it.
Check out some of the pieces on going to grad school in the Chronicle of Higher Ed, and roam around the academic blogosphere for a bit. This might be useful reading, as well as the piece by Menand linked at the end of that one.
(And I will shut up about academia now!)
InvisibleManNakedCity
November 11, 2009 at 11:14 pmI’ve felt the same way. After sitting in a Post-colonial literature conference the day before I toured NYU, I was just grateful to be done with the stuff.
I look to Franz Kafka for my solace though. A great writer with a completely boring job as a lawyer. I figure nothing is barring us from being creative other than ourselves, right?
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 7:45 amThat’s very true.
Laura
November 11, 2009 at 11:42 pmI’ve done the PhD route, too (although definitely not in English!). I can’t really recommend it…
I think anyone who /enjoyed/ 1L is probably going to be an awesome some-kind-of-lawyer. Although maybe the kind who writes awesome books or starts the next Above the Law instead of the kind that works in a law office.
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 8:03 amNo one seems to recommend the Ph.D. route! I think I might have to try to work the cliche of “you can do anything with a law degree.”
John
November 12, 2009 at 9:41 amI think it might just be November and every law student hates November and December and wishes they were anywhere but law school. Did you love love love 1L at this specific time last year?
2L can be a drag if 3Ls at your school get to take all the interesting classes. Then 2Ls are forced to take bar courses and it becomes just more 1L, with Wills and Trusts substituted for Property, Sales substituted for Contracts, Crim Pro instead of Crim Law, etc.
Jansen
November 12, 2009 at 4:13 pmI’m not sure if I’m really taking “bar” courses – Employment law, Conflicts, Tax I, Conlaw II, Moot Court, and Modern Real Estate… I really enjoyed 1L year. I started getting sick of things during the summer.
rebecca
November 12, 2009 at 8:38 pmWow. It’s amazing how many of us feel this way. I was thinking about getting my masters in family therapy once I am done. I just don’t think I have what it takes to be a successful lawyer. Whyyyyyyyy didn’t I listen to all those people who warned me about this. Do you think we are just burnt out. I remember 1st year your blog kept me motivated and sane. It was exciting, but now I’m just over it.
rebecca
November 12, 2009 at 8:39 pmover law school…not ur blog…lol
Jansen
November 13, 2009 at 12:46 amHaha! I’m glad you’re not over the blog! Maybe we are burned out…
Anon
November 12, 2009 at 9:18 pmThere are probably a few dozen of us who wanted, deep in our hearts someplace, to be professors, but opted for law because we figured we’d need a job at some point. “I’m over law school,” is a pretty common sentiment around old Mondale Hall these days, especially once you’ve used up all of the (limited) intellectual curiosity you might have had for law.
If I can’t get a job as a lawyer, maybe I will go back to school and let student loans fund a further seven years of my life. Could be worse?
Jansen
November 13, 2009 at 12:45 amThat’s the rationale.
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